Okie-Dokies

I can't think of anything more painful and tragic than a believer who is confused and out of fellowship with God because he has been deceived and caught up in false teaching that creates doubt in his mind that God might not accept him again or that he must be saved again or that he might not be elect.

Many keep coming down at alter calls to be "saved again" because of false teaching. I believe Hebrews 6 teaches that this is impossible; a person who has been saved, been partakers of the Spirit(born again) cannot repent of unbelief or dead works again for salvation. That foundation cannot be layed again, its there. A foundation is the beginning of something, no one keeps laying foundation on foundation, especially not the Creator of the universe. Some who are coming to the alter may be getting back into fellowship if they are confessing sin, but if they think they are being saved again or are being told they must be saved again, they will find no relief or peace, they are falling away from grace, it is impossible to renew them to repentance of unbelief again, you cannot believe in Christ for salvation again, they are crucifying the Son of God again to themselves and putting Him to open shame. False teaching’s take this very same passage to prove a believer is not eternally secure, when it actually says the opposite. In fact if losing your salvation is true, then this passage says you cannot be saved again.

This is a great trouble to many. I don't think God will permit a person to continue to call Him a liar by not believing His promise that he was saved when he believed in Christ alone the first time. He will end up like the children in the wilderness who through unbelief refused to go into the land promised to them. He will wander in the wilderness and bear thorns and thistles instead of entering God’s rest that Christ provided. He has everlasting life but his life on earth will not be abundant because he did not continue in His word and believe that Christ has set him free from the penalty of hell forever and therefore free to live an abundant fruit bearing life. His continuing unbelief in the promises of God has angered God and has set his soul to wander here on earth until his death separates his soul from his body. That’s why the writer says in Hebrews 6:3 “if God permits”. We cannot go on to maturity if we fail to believe God’s promised foundation in Christ.

Hebrews 10: 26-29 expounds on this. If we keep on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth of Christ by not believing God’s promise that our sin is forgiven at the cross, then all that remains is a fearful expectation of judgement. There is no remedy for sin other than Christ. The believer is trampling underfoot the Son of God and insulting the spirit of grace. I believe this angers God more than the vilest sin of the flesh a person can participate in. God will do to the believer, His child, the same has He did to His children He saved out of Eygpt and let them wander & die in the wilderness never knowing a life or land of milk and honey in the presence of God here on earth. God still loved the children of Israel, he continued to feed and care for them for forty years, but they didn’t inherit the promised land because of their unbelief.

These passages in Hebrews are a serious and grave warning from God. It is so sad that some miss-interpret these passages to destroy the foundation of Christ in the life of a confused believer while failing to warn them of the consequences of not believing the promises of God. In fact their mis-interpretation and false teaching is, in a way, the result of not believing God themselves. Many men who mis-interpret tough passages in Hebrews and other scripture are just repeating what someone else has put in a commentary. They should study more, get more opinions and commentaries, and then trust the Spirit who is in them to guide them to all truth.

If you are a believer, be assured that God will keep His promise of everlasting life to in Christ. But because He is one that will not lie, I believe He will not stand for anyone to call Him a liar by not believing His promises.
I would encourage anyone to read and re-read the book of Hebrews. It is one of the most re-assuring, and at the same time, rebuking, books inspired by the Holy Spirit there is for a believer.

Romans 12

2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

How many of us have been taught to renew our minds to know what the will of God is for each us? This is true! We must renew our minds to know what is good and acceptable and perfect.

But I think we have missed something here. I was taught this and read these verses myself. What I am proposing here is that most of us stop here in verse 2 and not continue on with Pauls intended context here to understand what the renewing our mind reveals to us and what we should look out for.

3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
4For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function,
5so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

I think the Holy Spirit here is telling us that when our minds are renewed to know what is good and acceptable then we may have a problem. What is that problem? Well if we read on further it seems that the proper renewing of our minds will let us know what our part in the body of Christ is. That is our gift or gifts that God has given us to minister to each other. Once we know this we may fall into thinking that we are better than others with "lesser" gifts.

So some of us may have a gift or gifts that is "greater" than anothers gift. But this understanding of a "greater" gift is only according to our evil human understanding based on this world system. Remember Paul said don't be conformed to this world. This world system rewards and recognizes the most talented the most successful, the ones with the biggest churches, the ones who have great oral skills, the ones who give large sums of money. We belong to each other and each of us is no is less important in the body to minister in Jesus Name.

6Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith;
7if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching;
8or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

One of the things I have been missing here; is that one of the reasons and results of renewing our mind is to prove what the will of God is. If I read this correctly in context, part of the will of God is using the gift or gifts that He has given me. I think the church, at least the church and churches I have attended have missed the boat on this. Some us don't even know what our gifts are much less use them in the church we are a member of. To me knowing and using our gifts are one of the foundations of purpose in this life here on earth for every believer.

Would not it be great as a Christian to hear teaching of equality within the church according to our gifts and be taught to just relax by not being conformed to this world of performance for self-worth? Would it not be great to not feel pressured by guilt to do something in the church that is someone elses gift and not yours? Would it not be great to realize our purpose and worth serving others according our gifts?

I am a Southern Baptist and proud of our heritage as a bible believing church of Jesus Christ. But I think we are missing sound teaching that helps all believers who are members of His body in this denomination.

One of the biggest failures, if not the biggest, is constant preaching to all believers the command to witness by being involved in visitation or outreach programs. Don't get me wrong these things are good, I love to go on visitation and share the good news, but not all members of the Body are gifted or have a desire for this. And those who are not gifted this way are dying to be fed teaching on what their gift is and encouragement to use those gifts. Some if not many leave a SBC church for other churches because of discouragement and starvation by a constant battering from the pulpit to "witness" by whatever church "program" is in place. I've even heard messages that they should question their salvation if they don't want to or have desire to participate in visitation or witnessing programs. Hogwash!

It is just as important for some to encourage others, for some to serve others, for some to teach others, etc. Some share the good news, but others disciple and encourage and others desire to give recources because their gift of giving has given them this desire. Some have the gift of mercy to extend mercy to those who are the vilest of sinners. So those who don't have this gift should not look down with contempt on those who do and those who have the gift of mercy should not think themselves more righteous than those who don't. It's only the Jesus in each of us that is giving us different desires and gifts for different ministries for the body of Christ to function properly.

My point is that renewing the mind is not just knowing what is morally right according to God's word. Romans 12 teaches that not all have the same gifts and all are important. Important enough to realize PREACHER/PASTOR/SBC-LEADERS that the same ole baptist message of persuasion by guilt by assuming that every member's mind is renewed to the same gift you have is wrong. Preaching the same message is starving the different members of the same body. There are some believers out there who have a sense of what their gift is, but are not encouraged or even given the chance to use it because the only gift our leaders are concerned with are the gifts that they have and understand.

In my opinion we should preach and teach the great commission, but remember the body has many members with different functions. Preaching and teaching this is important for the church to be healthy, the church is not just a place for unbelievers to be saved only to become totally confused with guilt and lack of purpose for their new lives in Christ.

Why do we renew our mind?
To not be conformed this world system of accepting others and basing our self-worth according to what this world says is important. But it is also to know God's will for each one of us according to the gifts He has given us as members of Christ body. We need sound biblical leadership and teaching in our denomination that recognizes this and leaves the "man-made" traditions, church "programs" and teaching that has infected our leadership all the way to the local body. Many leaders may have renewed their minds to their opinion of moral goodness and certain doctrines, but are still trying conform our denomination by sending out teaching material and programs according this world system.

This is a long post. It is written by Malcom Smith, Bandera, Texas.
His teaching has helped bring sanity to my life the last few years and I wanted to post this letter of his(Malcom's) on my site in case there are others who have struggled with living the Christian life like I did few years after being born again and still do at times. I believe very much that we are responsible to God but the devil is a murderer and seeks to kill and destroy, but he does not have an answer to God's grace through His Son Jesus, all he can do is tear us down by accusations if we let him.
While I agree with alot of what Malcom teaches, there are some things that I don't agree with or understand. I'm sure thats true of everyone who is a student of God's word about anyone else who teaches also.
So please read it when you have time, give your comments if you want. You can get a copy of this from his website if you want.
Let us not forget what Memorial Day stands for and have a great weekend.

STOP TRYING TO BE GOOD
In the last years people of all denominations and faiths have experienced a meeting with God in a personal and life-changing fashion. However, what has followed in the wake of that renewal is disturbing. As I travel the land talking to these people, I hear the low cry of despair. At times, I feel I am in a spiritual Egypt listening to the cry of God’s people in slavery, crying under the whips of the taskmasters.

The situation today is much the same as among the Galatian Christians prior to Paul writing his letter to them. Having been born again by helpless trust in the finished work of Christ and the activity of the Holy Spirit, they had been seduced to live in a constant struggle to please God by keeping the Law. Their definition of abundant life had withered to a despair struggle in which they sought to do something that would please God. In this effort they were helped by religious dictators who imposed rules and regulations on them that allegedly guaranteed spiritual maturity.

Do not get a distorted picture! Multiplied thousands are rejoicing in the freedom and liberty that is in Christ. My concern here is for the others who are presently struggling under the Law that they might come to the freedom and spontaneous life that is theirs in Christ.

In many hundreds of hours of talking with the dear people who have placed themselves under the Law there has emerged a predictable profile. We will call him ‘Floyd.’ Floyd thought little of the things relating to God and His kingdom before he came to a very real meeting with Jesus as his Lord and Savior when life took on a totally new meaning and purpose. He lived in a state of constant rejoicing as he discovered the promises of God and all that was his in union with Christ.

Gradually the euphoria passed and he began to think in terms of doing something for the God who had given him so much, so freely. Although he had received of salvation without cost or merit, surely to show God his appreciation, there must be something he could do in return. There must be some way to give special pleasure to the One who had been gracious enough to bring him into the Kingdom.

Floyd was not alone in his feelings. His prayer group or church was quick to back up this kind of thinking. In fact, they praised God that he was now moving to a deeper spiritual walk. They encouraged him to improve himself so that he might become worthy of the salvation God had given him.

Floyd had come under the Law. This is the power that gives strength to every spiritual problem we have. Thinking that by keeping the Law one can please God is the fundamental misunderstanding of God’s ways. The road to God and the only way of walking in His pleasure has been established from the beginning of the Bible. The way of salvation outlined in Scriptures finds its origin with God alone. All man can do is respond to His announced salvation with repentance, praise and thanks.

One of the earliest descriptions of a man becoming right with God is Abraham in Genesis 15: 6, “Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.” It was not his meritorious works that made him right with God, but his abandonment to God’s character and offered gift. The word ‘believe’ in this Scripture means to commit oneself, to rest in. In that act of committal to who God was and what He would do, Abraham was accepted as righteous.

It seems strange that some hundreds of years later God appeared to change His mind concerning the way man would approach Him. At Mt. Sinai He gave the Law summarized in the Ten Commandments. Reading through the law expounded in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, it seems that the way to God and living in His pleasure is no longer faith responding to His grace gift, but rather the self-effort of responding to the ten rules that must be kept in order to live in harmony with God. Even though it certainly appears like that, it cannot be, for God is the Unchangeable One.

The Law was not given as a new or alternate way to God, but to show man the depth of his sinfulness and selfishness, and to bring him to despair of his ability to change his condition. In the hour of helplessness he is driven to receive of God’s grace.

By nature man hates the God who will only deal with him in grace. Romans 8:7 describes man as being hostile to God. The reason for his antagonism is that the grace of God faces man with the fact that he can do nothing to merit God’s gifts. Man is the helpless receiver of all God’s blessings, not because of who he is or what he may have done, but because of who God is. This brings everyone to the same level with none being able to boast that he deserves the gifts of God.

When this man saw the Law, he grasped at it as an opportunity to get out of the humiliating position grace had placed him in. Looking at the Ten Commandments his attitude is that now the rules have been clearly spelled out! Now he can keep the rules and show God that he is not as bad as He says he is! By keeping the rules he can prove to God that he is capable of improvement and of pleasing Him.

Floyd has fallen into the error that has plagued man through the ages. He sincerely believes that although he entered God’s Kingdom by grace alone, he will now show he is worthy of such a gift by keeping the Law. Reading through the commandments, Floyd’s first thought was that they were relatively easy to keep, a marvelous way to please the God he so badly wanted to prove his love to. The first two commands were a little confusing because they were so open ended. How does one know when one has loved God enough to have obeyed the great command to “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. (Deuteronomy 5:6)?” How much love must be showered upon a neighbor before one can feel God is pleased?

Pondering it, Floyd decided that the fact he had quit gambling, smoking and drinking and was faithful in church attendance proved that he loved God! For the present he decided to work on more involvement in the church and prayer groups. He joined witnessing teams and committed himself to read through the bible in three months. Surely that would be evidence of love to God and man?

The other commands fell into place rather easily. He had never worshipped idols, treated his parents badly, killed anyone, nor had he been unfaithful to his wife. Everyone at work knew that he would not tell a lie. He sat back feeling smug. He kept this Law a lot better than most folks he knew!

Then he became aware of the last commandment, “Thou shall not covet.” He found out that the word ‘covet’ means to desire, to want to do something. This brought the Ten Commandments into a new perspective. The tenth commandment was saying that a man must not even want to break the other nine!

He then saw that the Law spoke to desire, attitude and motive. He remembered the times when he did what looked right while his thoughts were very far from wanting to do it: he did what he did to appear good. It occurred to him that it was possible to appear to be keeping the Law while actually breaking the tenth commandment. This last rule meant that anger, hatred and bitterness were murder begun. 1 John 3:15a took on new meaning to him: “Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him,” as did Matthew 5:28, “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

It was not a matter of what he did, but of what he really wanted to do in his heart. We would expect that anyone considering this would be devastated, but not Floyd! He is undaunted. The project has certainly become more complicated, but according to his logic that will only make his efforts to please God more outstanding.

For a God who has done so much for him, the least he can do is love Him with all his strength. He gave himself to the task and the following Sunday he walked forward to the altar dedicating himself to pleasing God.

Floyd had missed the whole point of the Law! God gave the commandments to show up mans’ guilt and clearly define to him the extent of his wrongness. As Floyd worked hard to make himself loveable to God, he was like a man who looked in the mirror and upon seeing how dirty he was, took the mirror off the wall and tried to use it to remove the dirt! The mirror was only to show how badly he needed a wash – the remedy was in the soap and water. Tragically, Floyd was trying to use the Law to make himself presentable to God.

Now that he had dedicated himself to pleasing God, things got worse. The more Floyd tried to be better, the worse he got. It seemed that his anger, pride, lust and impatience all received new strength! He had never noticed these negative characteristics before. His cry is beginning to move into despair. I heard him say so many times, “I don’t know what has come over me. Why doesn’t God help me?
The more I try to please Him the less He cares to help me!

He did not realize it, but the Law was doing the work God intended. God gave it to show up man’s sins and helplessness. Romans 7:13 puts it succinctly, “…that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.” Imagine a crystal clear pool with inches of fine mud at its bottom. You take a stick and stir the bottom filling the pool with its mud. Given personality, the pool might shout at you, “Stop it, you are making me muddy.” No! The pool was muddy all the time, your stirring only showed just how muddy the pool was! So the Law stirs our helpless selves, showing us just how helpless we are to please God.

Floyd tried to encourage himself by comparison. He looked around the prayer group and realized that he was better than most, more devoted to pleasing God, more spiritual in his outlook. He became smug, forgetting his despair by dwelling on the fact that he was holier than most. He despised those who did not see life as he did. It wasn’t long before even members of his prayer group did not want to be around him. They were tired of being despised in the name of God! Floyd interpreted his rejection as being persecuted for righteousness sake! But the Law continued its relentless work. The despair returned again and again reminding him that in his heart he did not love God and certainly did not enjoy keeping His commands. At times he wondered if he was demon possessed. All the time he hated himself for not being able to do the simple things to please the God who had done so much for him.

It is at this point of total despair of the ability of self that the Holy Spirit turned on the lights and showed him that Christ was the whole and only answer – not only to the past, but also to the present struggling self. Salvation is not merely Christ dying to save us from our past guilt, but Christ alive and by His Spirit actually living within us. This coming within of the Spirit of Christ occurs at the new birth. Romans 8:9 points out that if we do not have His Spirit we do not belong to Him. However, most of us are like Floyd and go through endless miseries, drawing upon our self-strength before we realize that the whole of the Christian life is not us struggling, but Christ simply living His life in us and as us.

For a man like Floyd this comes as a staggering fact that throws apart everything he has ever believed. The question, “What shall a man do to please God?” is now answered, not with rules and neat formulas, but with the amazing words, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! He is to reject all his efforts to improve and make himself respectable before God and rest in the One who is the life within. Such a revelation is devastating because it shows that all that Floyd called spiritual life was in actual fact spiritual death, the dead struggles of self proving again and again its inability to live a life pleasing to God. True spiritual life is not what I am doing for God, but Christ being Himself in me.

The revelation of God’s grace demands a renewal of mind, a new way of looking and thinking about life. The Law-way is a life of promises, calling upon self to do and be better, a way characterized by formula, methods and the how to’s of cold principles, all working to achieve a lifestyle that will allegedly please God. Grace shows us that Christ has done all and is the all of life. It leaves man to accept the fact he is helpless.

There are no more ridiculous promises to God that vow more determined efforts to be like Jesus; no more searching after methods that depend on self-effort and self-discipline to achieve the Christian life. The helpless cannot draw from their own resources for they have none! The Christian life, step by step, is seen as Christ living within us by His Spirit. When describing the believer’s lifestyle, Paul describes it as the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22). It is the believer living, but the Spirit of Christ living within his life as his true new life.

Thousands of Floyds have come to see the despair and death of the Law-way, and the total rest that grace brings showing us our life is Christ in us. In the seeing of the way of rest in Christ many need to commit themselves to the revelation with a simple prayer. “I recognize you to be my everything; that we are joined in one Spirit, a perfect unit; that for me to live is simply You living in me. You are my life, my all. I recognize and rest in this fact now. Amen.”

It takes time for Floyd to live in the fact that he is a weak human and Christ is his only strength. At first he will probably be shocked that he does not feel any different. Don’t worry, we are not supposed to! It is not a wiping out of all feeling and negative emotion, but a new attitude toward them. When life pressures him he will feel the rising within of anger, jealousy, unlove, lust and all the rest. All his life Floyd has been told that such feelings are sin, and he must fight such feelings by trying to be loving. Now he must learn that those feelings are not sin, only the fact of human weakness making itself known. If he chooses to follow through with those feelings, it will result in sin.

As he is tempted to follow a certain line of sin, his feelings urging him on, he hears the Law speaking within him: “You ought to try harder to overcome…” or “You should do thus and so as a good Christian.” That is where the real temptation is joined: to try in his own ability to follow the ‘oughts’ and ‘shoulds’ of the Law and overcome his feelings. The temptation has strong appeal because he is usually surrounded by fellow Christians who demand that he produce a better self by his self-energies. If he yields to this he will undoubtedly sin. What should Floyd do? Remember the message of God’s grace, that he is helpless, Christ is his life and the Gospel is not helplessness trying to be like Christ, but Christ living in his helplessness His own life.

In that moment of temptation and pressure, he must realize that Christ is his true life and deliberately replace the weakness of helpless self with the reality of Christ his life. When he feels the risings within of unlove, he recognizes that Christ is his love. Faced with the fear of indecision, he recognizes that Christ is his wisdom. Having recognized the truth, he must speak and act on it. In so doing, he will discover rivers of life flowing through him.

When this has been grasped, Floyd will have a new outlook on trouble and pressures. All the pressures of life will be seen as an opportunity to let Christ be and live Himself through the human. To see this fact is to actually welcome trials and pressures (James 1:2). Paul stated plainly in II Corinthians 12:9-10, “But he said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” We will never get away from the Law, but now we know its purpose, we can rejoice in it.

The Law continually defines sin. As we hear its condemning voice, we cringe in guilt. If we dwell on the condemnation and remember all our past sins, we will soon end in despair. Stop! Thank God for the Law that so clearly shows up sin and go on to praise Him for the death of Christ that has satisfied all the just demands of the Law. Revel in the fact that the blood of Jesus has cleansed you from all sin. The Law will constantly confront you saying its ‘oughts’ and ‘shoulds.’ Before you would have responded with, “I will try harder,” but now you smile and thank God that you have come to death concerning your natural ability. Your life is no longer a straight jacket of rules, but the life of Christ lived through your weakness.

Recognize who you are and walk away from your bondage to the Law, to the freedom of Christ living His life in you.
By Malcom Smith

Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

The more I study God’s word the more I see how man has perverted His word and therefore painted & proclaimed a God that is not our true Creator. Although I think for the most part many have done this unintentionally. I have done this in the past and I am sure there are many things I believe now that is not true to who our Creator is.

How many times have you heard a teacher/pastor/preacher or a “loving” brother use Gal. 6:7 to try to scare a believer to repentance? If I really believed that I would reap corruption from everything I have done or will do that is bad, I would be scared to leave the house, because I make mistakes everyday, much less say and do things at times that I know are wrong.

Have any of us really reaped everything we deserve from everything we have sown or done?
I don’t think so; if we had we would be nothing but a smear on the floor if God gave us everything our sin and mistakes should have reaped.
But the passage is clearly saying that WHATEVER a man sows. This means everything we have sown, even mistakes that we make; we WILL reap because God is NOT mocked. I believe with all my heart that God is not nor will ever be mocked. I also believe that there are consequences for most sin that we commit, but that is not what this verse is saying. Consequences for most sin does not even come close to what this verse is saying. Lets say I get a speeding ticket and you get a warning and our friend doesn't even get stopped. Both of us getting stopped is a consequence of our speeding, but did we both reap what we sowed by speeding, did our friend reap what he sowed, not even close.

This verse can’t be talking about eternal punishment for sin because God clearly has laid on Christ the sin of us all. This verse can’t be talking to unbelievers because Paul is clearly talking to believers. If God is not mocked and we will reap what we sow then I conclude that the sowing and reaping here must be a specific act and does not pertain to every thing we sow whether intentionally or unintentionally.

Context, context, context lets look at the context and see if many people take this verse out of context to portray a God that is determined to give us what we deserve for every mistake, bad choices and intentional sowing of things we know we shouldn’t here on earth.

Galatians 6:6-10
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

It is very clear from verse 6 what the sowing is in the context of this often misused verse 7. Paul is telling the Galatians and us that we are to share all good things with those who teach us God’s word. I posit this sharing is support, such as money, food, clothing, and encouragement to those who teach us.

I believe God is telling us if we spend our money on things that our flesh loves, the things of this world, while letting those who teach and preach the gospel of God struggle to make a living, then we will from the flesh reap corruption for everything or whatsoever we sow to the flesh that should have went to our pastors and anyone who teaches us that are depending on God’s people for support. Notice Paul said “from the flesh” we will reap corruption, he did not say from God we will reap corruption. However we should not deceive ourselves and think God will overlook this. This would be same as mocking God and I think God saying in this passage that He will not be mocked, especially when it comes to taking care of those who have given their lives up here on earth for the sake of Christ & the gospel.

So let us take this verse as a warning from God when it comes to taking care of His ministers and teachers that teach us and let us also take this verse as a promise that in due time we will reap eternal things from what we sow to the Spirit out of love in giving to those who teach us.

Let us not take this verse out of context and use it in attempting to motivate believers by fear to repentance and therefore portray our Creator has a God that is determined to make sure He gets even with us for everything we do. It is God’s kindness that leads us to true repentance.

I think it grieves the heart of God for us to listen to the enemy of our souls and believe that the same God, who loves us enough to humble Himself and come to earth and pay our sin debt while we were yet sinners, would be so set on making sure we reaped everything or whatsoever we sowed. I think it is the grace of God that keeps us from reaping everything we sow. I think it is the same grace that lets people take a verse like this out of context without letting them reap what they have sown.

I wanted to answer Adam's last response on another post here and give his forum a plug. Maybe someone else may want to add something to this discussion that might not be reading the comments on the last post.

Adams last response:
Making the message clear does not necessarily mean making it simple. I could say that Kris went to Starbucks and ordered a venti soy chai latte. This is a clear message. I could also say that Kris went. This is the same message, but simpler. Both express the exact same idea, that Kris went, however the first explains fully and with more clarity exactly what happened.

Perhaps the same is true with the gospel message. We could give the simple version: 'believe and receive'. And then we would have the countless walk the aisle and 'believe'.OR we could give the more clear message: 'believe in the LORD, the Savior of humanity, and He will give you eternal life and will come into your life and forever make you other.' This is the clearer message of what truly transpires.

We LORDship are asking for a clearer message. We understand that we can abbreviate the message and make is simple. 'Turn or burn'. But with such confusion that is associated with the abbreviated and simple version, we would opt for the more clearer message so that we can assure that people are not 'believing' and yet having no clue as to what this belief entails.Does that make sense?I think I have an entry idea. Keep up the good work. So far you have given me two ideas. :)

My response:
Adam, I can understand YOU asking for a clearer message and I agree that making it clearer does not necessarily make it simple, BUT the clear message is simple, the clear message is so simple that Jesus said unless we become like children we won't see how simple it is.
What I am talking about are those who ADD to the clear message qualifiers such as "follow Jesus", "if He is not Lord of all then He is not Lord at all", "be willing to give up all", and etc in order to be saved. My whole point in the clear message of believing in the Christ alone is for the person hearing it along with Holy Spirit convicting them of the fact that ours/their God/Creator is the one offering it to them without any conditions whatsoever other than coming to Him as a sinner. That is what changed yours and my heart and will change whosoever hears who also has ears to hear it.

In fact alot of preachers seem bent on adding qualifiers to those after having believed to confuse and make them stumble over the assurance that God so clearly gives us.
I love John Piper, but I have to disagree with some of the things he has been preaching along these lines for last few years. We should very much preach fear of the Lords discipline to believers but not fear being cast into hell, that would be calling what God said in John 3:16 a lie. Why? Because if we believe in the Son for everlasting life and then perish, then God was not telling us the truth.

I am in no way advocating making a believer comfortable in their sin, but we should not make them uncomfortable about their assurance of everlasting life after having believed God for it. If we do this then we are suggesting that their eternal life depends on faith plus works and not the free gift of God.

And if those who are comfortable depending on their works for assurance, then maybe they have missed the Good News all together. If I depend on looking at my works and my heart then I am most miserable in my assurance, if I look to my Lord Jesus alone for everlasting life then I am free from doubt and am free to produce good works for Him (John 15:4)Does that make sense?

I would much rather discuss issues like this in your forum at http://protestantpub.com/forum/ it is much easier a format especially if we can have some one on one like you suggested.

besides I can make fun of your hair there. LOLOLOL

Thank you all for your prayers for me. God has been faithful to answer and give me relief.

Does Jesus call people to follow Him as a condition to have eternal life or is the call to follow Him made after a person is converted? I think a close look at what happened to Peter will make this clear to everyone who has an open mind to biblical truth.

First, the account of Jesus telling Peter to “follow Him” must include all the statements made to this fact by Luke and Mark and Matthew and John. If we only read Matthew and Mark then it seems that Jesus clearly said to follow Him when He first met Peter, but that is not what happened, even though many evangelistic calls to have eternal life give this message. Let’s look at what Luke has to say and then Matthew’s and Mark’s account is made clearer.

After Peter had learned of Jesus from his brother Andrew, Andrew brought Peter to Jesus and Jesus told Peter that he would be called Peter instead of Simon (John 1:40-42). Then after a few days with Jesus, Peter had seen the Lord heal his mother-in-law (Luke 4:38,39).
Then they apparently left Jesus and went back to work and Jesus came to where they were coming in from fishing one morning (they had caught nothing) and asked them to put one of the boats out in the water to give Him room to give a speech to those who were crowding around Him. (Luke 5:1-11)
After He finished teaching He said to Peter, put out your nets again for a catch. After Peter saw the nets breaking because of all the fish, he, Peter saw Jesus for the first time as God and was converted. It was after this revelation and their conversion that Jesus then said I will make you fishers of men or follow Me and they, Peter, James, and John and probably Andrew & Philip followed Him.

The lordship group should look at this aspect of the actual account of the first disciples calling instead of saying that Jesus said to follow Him as a condition to have eternal life before a person sees who He is and is converted by convicting faith... which I think is proof that Jesus never asked anyone to follow Him without them first being converted or born again to everlasting life.

The bottom line is that simply telling someone to follow Jesus does not save them, also telling them they must follow Him as a condition to be saved is not biblical either and is a false gospel. Many so-called Christian religions preach and teach this or some other works implied gospel, but heresy abounds in such organizations. John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:27-29, John 6:47, John 11:25,26 are clear truths to what God has said in His word is required for everlasting life.

So if this is clear biblical truth doesn’t this relieve the tension between the gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark and Luke against John’s account of a person simply believing in Jesus to have everlasting life apart from discipleship calling? I think it does.

I need prayer. I have been going thru the valley lately and things in my past life are starting to be attractive to me again. Idolatry is a bummer. I really want to serve my Lord and love Him, I don't know what is going on though. I know one thing when this happened to me before I didn't say anything and fell away. I don't want this to happen again PLEASE PRAY for me, pray that I will not be overcome by pride in not confessing my needs and if you don't mind tell me that you did pray and will pray. I know that will be an encouragement to me and I need it.

Thanks